Discussion Notes May 26 – Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind – Attachment Non-Attachment, Calmness, Experience not Philosophy, Original Buddhism, Beyond Consciousness, Buddha’s Enlightenment, Epilogue: Zen Mind

Many more apologizes for missing last week.  As I mention in the log that I had to rush to the East Coast of the US to see family after the loss of my uncle.  Ahhh, such is life.  It was very good to see everyone.  The biggest disappointment was not bringing my camera.

This week is the last week of discussing Zen Mind Beginner’s Mind.  Next week we start the new book:

Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies, & the Truth about Reality
ISBN: 086171380X ISBN-13: 9780861713806

It should be interesting and different.  

This week’s quasi-buddha thoughts brought to you by the following complex-infinities: Dogen Coldstream, Danaeah Ballinger, Solari Georgia, Renwick Tomsen, and me.

[18:02] Renwick Tomsen: hiya
[18:02] Dharma Voyager: hey there!
[18:02] Renwick Tomsen: How are you?
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: I’m ok
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: job free again
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: hehehe
[18:03] Renwick Tomsen: freedom
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: we shall see… I have to remember how I was doing last time
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: hey Dani
[18:03] Danaeah Ballinger: Hi Dharmi
[18:03] Danaeah Ballinger: Hiya Ren
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: I’m still a little freaked out
[18:03] Renwick Tomsen: hi Dani
[18:03] Dharma Voyager: how you feeling?
[18:04] Dharma Voyager: hye sol
[18:04] Danaeah Ballinger: Hello!!!!
[18:04] Renwick Tomsen: better. still sick
[18:04] Solari Georgia: Hi : )
[18:04] Dharma Voyager: same gunk?
[18:04] Renwick Tomsen: no idea. Doctors are puzzled.
[18:04] Dharma Voyager: you aren’t oinking are you?
[18:04] Renwick Tomsen: nope
[18:04] Dharma Voyager: I hear that is how you can tell certain things
[18:04] Dharma Voyager: cluck like a chicken?
[18:04] Renwick Tomsen: nope
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: hmmm… I’m puzzled
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:05] Solari Georgia: beck beck
[18:05] Renwick Tomsen: just waves of nausea like an ocean
[18:05] Renwick Tomsen: much fun
[18:05] Renwick Tomsen: hi Solari
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: unless you like that sort of thing
[18:05] Solari Georgia: 12 hugs per day
[18:05] Renwick Tomsen: not really
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: oooo
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: I get 11 more?
[18:05] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:05] Renwick Tomsen: Hi Dogen
[18:05] Dogen Coldstream: Hi guys
[18:05] Solari Georgia: Hi Dogen
[18:06] Danaeah Ballinger: Hello Dogen
[18:06] Solari Georgia: is this an earthquake drill?
[18:06] Dogen Coldstream: I think so
[18:06] Dharma Voyager: I should really give reminders again
[18:06] Dharma Voyager:
[18:06] Dogen Coldstream: Thy always make us dive under our desks for that
[18:06] Solari Georgia: 3
[18:06] Dharma Voyager: I think that worked better when I remembered to do it
[18:06] Dharma Voyager: did the earth move for you?
[18:06] Renwick Tomsen: thanks
[18:07] Danaeah Ballinger: oh we had to dive under our desks for hydrogen bomb drills when I was a tadpole
[18:07] Dharma Voyager: checks for stevie
[18:07] Dogen Coldstream: hugz
[18:07] Dharma Voyager: no stevie
[18:07] Solari Georgia: yikes! Hydrogen bombs
[18:07] Dharma Voyager: I always keep a newspaper with me just to be safe
[18:07] Danaeah Ballinger: keep ya safe from flying glass
[18:08] Danaeah Ballinger: yes
[18:08] Dharma Voyager: I suppose it would
[18:09] Dogen Coldstream: I like the more modern interpretation: put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass goodbye
[18:09] Dharma Voyager: evens mans fantasy?
[18:09] Danaeah Ballinger: ya put your right foot in ya put your right foot out….
[18:09] Dharma Voyager: women don’t think like that
[18:09] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:09] Renwick Tomsen: Stop, drop, roll, and put your hands in the air like you just don’t care.
[18:09] Dharma Voyager: brb let me get the notes
[18:10] Solari Georgia: lol
[18:10] Renwick Tomsen: make that jazz hands
[18:10] Solari Georgia: do the hootchi cuchi…and you turn yourself around
[18:10] Renwick Tomsen: I wonder if there is a dance combination that would result in one turning inside out.
[18:11] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:11] Renwick Tomsen: Not unlike line dancing. There will be a point in time and space where a line dance will be performed that will open a gateway to hell.
[18:11] Danaeah Ballinger: Solari and I have a mutual friend with a hideous avatar – she dons it when confronted with unwanted male attention
[18:12] Solari Georgia: oh… I have one
[18:12] Dharma Voyager: lol @ Renny
[18:12] Dharma Voyager: I have a few
[18:12] Danaeah Ballinger: wow, Rennie – poor boy, you’ve been into the morbid dust again
[18:12] Solari Georgia: Dharma will like this
[18:12] Danaeah Ballinger: oh I hate that thing
[18:12] Dharma Voyager: I call my flying buddha av… cock blocker buddha
[18:12] Dogen Coldstream: just a natural by-product of line-dancing, probably
[18:12] Solari Georgia: ok I won’t get it out
[18:12] Renwick Tomsen: mmm morbid dust
[18:12] Renwick Tomsen: I want to see it.
[18:13] Solari Georgia gave you sexy thang!.
[18:13] Danaeah Ballinger: Actually a local zen teacher, Cheri Huber, talks about how we all sometimes do behaviors that can only be explained by "stupid dust" – like when you do something and you KNOW better
[18:13] Dharma Voyager: lovin it
[18:13] Renwick Tomsen: mmm. sexy
[18:13] Dharma Voyager: wait need photos

[18:14] Danaeah Ballinger: yes that’s the one
[18:14] Solari Georgia: stops unwanted advances cold
[18:14] Dharma Voyager: wow they changed images to pngs
[18:14] Danaeah Ballinger: wanted ones too
[18:14] Dharma Voyager: oooo nice
[18:14] Solari Georgia: neat
[18:14] Renwick Tomsen: a little too big
[18:14] Danaeah Ballinger: didn’t your mother ever tell you not to cross your eyes because they would freeze like that?
[18:14] Danaeah Ballinger: excuse me for a minute or two
[18:15] Dogen Coldstream: Dharma baby… what are you doing later?
[18:15] Solari Georgia: the eyes have it
[18:15] Dharma Voyager: hahaha
[18:15] Dharma Voyager: you lagging man
[18:16] Dharma Voyager: we
[18:16] Dogen Coldstream: I forget why we come here
[18:16] Dharma Voyager: oh yeah
[18:16] Solari Georgia: lol
[18:16] Solari Georgia: SL is funny stuff
[18:16] Renwick Tomsen: Hot steamy Buddhist chat.
[18:17] Dharma Voyager: wow where do you go for that?
[18:17] Renwick Tomsen: phone line
[18:17] Renwick Tomsen: all I am wearing is a robe. and that is it
[18:17] Dharma Voyager: nice
[18:17] Dharma Voyager: I shaved this morning
[18:17] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:17] Renwick Tomsen:
[18:18] Dharma Voyager: I hate it when my head gets a 5 o’clock shadow
[18:18] Renwick Tomsen: helps with the sun though
[18:18] Dharma Voyager: very true
[
18:18] Dharma Voyager: ever shave your head?
[18:18] Renwick Tomsen: shaved very close
[18:18] Solari Georgia: the Sun gets 5 O’clock shadow?
[18:19] Renwick Tomsen: not to the skin though
[18:19] Dharma Voyager: always had a small fantasy about it
[18:19] Dharma Voyager: maybe one day when all my hair is white
[18:19] Dharma Voyager: should we wait for Dani?
[18:20] Solari Georgia: how about the first talking pt
[18:20] Dharma Voyager: kk
[18:20] Dogen Coldstream: Sol, reach over and pinch her

Attachment, Non-Attachment

Zazen practice and everyday activity are one thing. We call zazen everyday life, and everyday life zazen. But usually we think, “Now zazen is over, and we will go about our everyday activity.” But this is not the right understanding. They are the same thing. We have nowhere to escape. So in activity there should be calmness, and in calmness there should be activity. Calmness and activity are not different.

[18:20] Dharma Voyager: Attachment, Non-Attachment
Zazen practice and everyday activity are one thing. We call zazen everyday life, and everyday life zazen. But usually we think, “Now zazen is over, and we will go about our everyday activity.” But this is not the right understanding. They are the same thing. We have nowhere to escape. So in activity there should be calmness, and in calmness there should be activity. Calmness and activity are not different.
[18:20] Solari Georgia: already did : )
[18:20] Dharma Voyager: heheheh
[18:21] Solari Georgia: oh, BTW..liked your changes to the blog site
[18:21] Dharma Voyager: this book was mostly about duality I think
[18:21] Dharma Voyager: did you use them
[18:21] Dharma Voyager: I haven’t put them in permanently yet.. .and may have broken it
[18:21] Solari Georgia: just some subtle things.
[18:21] Dharma Voyager: I was trying to get it to come up a bit faster
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: oh I built a new template
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: will be quite different
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: second point?
[18:22] Solari Georgia: oh cool…haven’t seen that yet
[18:22] Solari Georgia: sorry
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: if I can get it working again it should be there tomorrow
[18:22] Solari Georgia: back to duality
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: oh no problemo
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: hahhaha
[18:22] Dharma Voyager: it’s all good

Usually you criticize yourself for being unfair to your surroundings; you criticize your unaccepting attitude. But there is a very subtle difference between the usual way of accepting and our way of accepting things, although they may seem exactly the same. We have been taught that there is no gap between nighttime and daytime, no gap between you and I. This means oneness. But we do not emphasize even oneness. If it is one, there is no need to emphasize one.

[18:22] Dharma Voyager: Usually you criticize yourself for being unfair to your surroundings; you criticize your unaccepting attitude. But there is a very subtle difference between the usual way of accepting and our way of accepting things, although they may seem exactly the same. We have been taught that there is no gap between nighttime and daytime, no gap between you and I. This means oneness. But we do not emphasize even oneness. If it is one, there is no need to emphasize one.
[18:23] Dharma Voyager: we are the cosmic jello mold
[18:23] Dharma Voyager: next point?

Calmness

When you are doing zazen, you are within the complete calmness of your mind; you do not feel anything. You just sit. But the calmness of your sitting will encourage you in your everyday life. So actually you will find the value of Zen in your everyday life, rather than while you sit. But this does not mean you should neglect zazen. Even though you do not feel anything when you sit, if you do not have this zazen experience, you cannot find anything; you just find weeds, or trees, or clouds in your daily life; you do not see the moon. That is why you are always complaining about something. But for Zen students a weed, which for most people is worthless, is a treasure. With this attitude, whatever you do, life becomes an art.

[18:23] Dharma Voyager: Calmness
When you are doing zazen, you are within the complete calmness of your mind; you do not feel anything. You just sit. But the calmness of your sitting will encourage you in your everyday life. So actually you will find the value of Zen in your everyday life, rather than while you sit. But this does not mean you should neglect zazen. Even though you do not feel anything when you sit, if you do not have this zazen experience, you cannot find anything; you just find weeds, or trees, or clouds in your daily life; you do not see the moon. That is why you are always complaining about something. But for Zen students a weed, which for most people is worthless, is a treasure. With this attitude, whatever you do, life becomes an art.
[18:24] Dharma Voyager: next point?
[18:24] Solari Georgia: I have a backyard full of treasures
[18:24] Renwick Tomsen: not yet
[18:24] Dharma Voyager: ok
[18:24] Dogen Coldstream: That’s an interesting thought
[18:25] Dogen Coldstream: you don’t feel anything happening during meditation, but it affects you later
[18:25] Renwick Tomsen: From the previous point to this one I can see the wonder in seeing the process that brought the weed to bear. It is not a point in time, just a merging of all.
[18:26] Solari Georgia: Dogen, isn’t that the intent as well with meditation? to change your overall outlook?
[18:26] Renwick Tomsen: Most of the code I work on takes things in snapshots. Very disjointed. This seems a way to get away from that.
[18:26] Danaeah Ballinger: well a great temptation for meditation students is to judge each session and beat themselves up. *EVERY* meditation discipline I have ever looked at says you will see the effects in your life, not in this or that sitting
[18:27] Dogen Coldstream: I dunno what the intent is, Sol
[18:27] Renwick Tomsen: Given a large time line they will average out.
[18:27] Dharma Voyager: next point?
[18:27] Solari Georgia: well, according to the author…to have an "intent" is wrong thinking…small brain
[18:27] Renwick Tomsen: sure
[18:27] Dharma Voyager: nods

Experience, Not Philosophy

Although there are many people in this country who are interested in Buddhism, few of them are interested in its pure form. Most of them are interested in studying the teaching or the philosophy of Buddhism. Comparing it to other religions, they appreciate how satisfying Buddhism is intellectually. But whether Buddhism is philosophically deep or good or perfect is not the point. To keep our practice in its pure form is our purpose. Sometimes I feel there is something blasphemous in talking about how Buddhism is perfect as a philosophy or teaching without knowing what it actually is.

[18:27] Dharma Voyager: Experience, Not Philosophy
Although there are many people in this country who are interested in Buddhism, few of them are interested in its pure form. Most of them are interested in studying the teaching or the philosophy of Buddhism. Comparing it to other religions, they appreciate how satisfying Buddhism is intellectually. But whether Buddhism is philosophically deep or good or perfect is not the point. To keep our practice in its pure form is our purpose. Sometimes I feel there is something blasphemous in talking about how Buddhism is perfect as a philosophy or teaching without knowing what it actually is.
[1
8:28] Renwick Tomsen: that can apply to many fields of interest
[18:29] Dharma Voyager: what are you thinking?
[18:29] Renwick Tomsen: Only finding interest in the base understanding of something.
[18:29] Renwick Tomsen: Not digging further.
[18:29] Renwick Tomsen: Armchair
[18:29] Dogen Coldstream: I read a book, so I know all about it. That kind of thing?
[18:29] Renwick Tomsen: yeah
[18:29] Solari Georgia: : )
[18:30] Renwick Tomsen: also, looking for something to believe in, because the latest thing did not have lasting appeal
[18:30] Danaeah Ballinger: Even leaving aside such obvious traps, I think Suzuki is always blasting concepts cause that is what our mind does
[18:31] Danaeah Ballinger: small mind where we start from does not like to not know
[18:31] Danaeah Ballinger: or set off on a path to an unknowable destination
[18:32] Dogen Coldstream: it must be a delicate balance, trying to explain concepts, while trying to also say to forget them and just practice.
[18:32] Danaeah Ballinger: I think it was him or Thich Nhat Hahn who said, "To get caught in the concept of a ’self’ is bad, but to get caught in the concept of ‘no self’ is worse.
[18:32] Solari Georgia: lost me there, D
[18:33] Danaeah Ballinger: which seems strange if you think ‘no self’ is a core buddhist concept. But not so strange if he’s just trying to nudge us to experience instead of think
[18:33] Danaeah Ballinger: ok sol
[18:33] Danaeah Ballinger: one teacher or another warned about getting "stuck" ie. fixated on a key concept OR on its "opposite"
[18:34] Solari Georgia: oh, ok…fixating on either concept
[18:34] Danaeah Ballinger: yes
[18:34] Dharma Voyager: next point?
[18:34] Solari Georgia: yes, yes Suzuki mentions something like that

Zazen practice is the practice in which we resume our pure way of life, beyond any gaining idea, and beyond fame and profit. By practice we just keep our original nature as it is. There is no need to intellectualize about what our pure original nature is, because it is beyond our intellectual understanding. And there is no need to appreciate it, because it is beyond our appreciation. So just to sit, without any idea of gain, and with the purest intention, to remain as quiet as our original nature—this is our practice.

[18:34] Dharma Voyager: Zazen practice is the practice in which we resume our pure way of life, beyond any gaining idea, and beyond fame and profit. By practice we just keep our original nature as it is. There is no need to intellectualize about what our pure original nature is, because it is beyond our intellectual understanding. And there is no need to appreciate it, because it is beyond our appreciation. So just to sit, without any idea of gain, and with the purest intention, to remain as quiet as our original nature—this is our practice.
[18:36] Dogen Coldstream: might be hard for a lot of people to find motivation to keep sitting in that quote
[18:36] Renwick Tomsen: the first rule of buddha club is not to think about buddha club.
[18:36] Dogen Coldstream: grin
[18:36] Dharma Voyager: heheheh
[18:36] Danaeah Ballinger: you have to try it I think
[18:37] Dharma Voyager: next point?

Original Buddhism

Because Buddha was the founder of the teaching, people tentatively called his teaching “Buddhism,” but actually Buddhism is not some particular teaching. Buddhism, is just Truth, which includes various truths in it. Zazen practice is the practice which includes the various activities of life. So actually, we do not emphasize the sitting posture alone. How to sit is how to act. We study how to act by sitting, and this is the most basic activity for us. That is why we practice zazen in this way. Even though we practice zazen, we should not call ourselves the Zen school. We just practice zazen, taking our example from Buddha; that is why we practice. Buddha taught us how to act through our practice; that is why we sit.

[18:37] Dharma Voyager: Original Buddhism
Because Buddha was the founder of the teaching, people tentatively called his teaching “Buddhism,” but actually Buddhism is not some particular teaching. Buddhism, is just Truth, which includes various truths in it. Zazen practice is the practice which includes the various activities of life. So actually, we do not emphasize the sitting posture alone. How to sit is how to act. We study how to act by sitting, and this is the most basic activity for us. That is why we practice zazen in this way. Even though we practice zazen, we should not call ourselves the Zen school. We just practice zazen, taking our example from Buddha; that is why we practice. Buddha taught us how to act through our practice; that is why we sit.
[18:38] Renwick Tomsen: It is not Darwinism, just evolution.
[18:38] Solari Georgia: : )
[18:38] Dogen Coldstream: yeeeesssssss…
[18:39] Dharma Voyager: next?
[18:39] Solari Georgia: survival of the sitting
[18:39] Danaeah Ballinger: @@

Buddha’s teaching is everywhere. Today it is raining. This is Buddha’s teaching. People think their own way or their own religious understanding is Buddha’s way, without knowing what they are hearing, or what they are doing, or where they are. Religion is not any particular teaching. Religion is everywhere. We have to understand our teaching in this way. We should forget all about some particular teaching; we should not ask which is good or bad. There should not be any particular teaching. Teaching is in each moment, in every existence. That is the true teaching.

[18:39] Dharma Voyager: Buddha’s teaching is everywhere. Today it is raining. This is Buddha’s teaching. People think their own way or their own religious understanding is Buddha’s way, without knowing what they are hearing, or what they are doing, or where they are. Religion is not any particular teaching. Religion is everywhere. We have to understand our teaching in this way. We should forget all about some particular teaching; we should not ask which is good or bad. There should not be any particular teaching. Teaching is in each moment, in every existence. That is the true teaching.
[18:39] Dharma Voyager: heheh
[18:39] Renwick Tomsen: nice
[18:40] Dharma Voyager: next point

Beyond Consciousness
So to have a firm conviction in the original emptiness of your mind is the most important thing in your practice. In Buddhist scriptures we sometimes use vast analogies in an attempt to describe empty mind. Sometimes we use an astronomically great number, so great it is beyond counting. This means to give up calculating. If it is so great that you cannot count it, then you will lose your interest and eventually give up. This kind of description may also give rise to a kind of interest in the innumerable number, which will help you to stop the thinking of your small mind.

[18:40] Dharma Voyager: Beyond Consciousness
So to have a firm conviction in the original emptiness of your mind is the most important thing in your practice. In Buddhist scriptures we sometimes use vast analogies in an attempt to describe empty mind. Sometimes we use an astronomically great number, so great it is beyond counting. This means to give up calculating. If it is so great that you cannot count it, then you will lose your interest and eventually give up. This kind of description may also give rise to a kind of interest in the innumerable number, which will help you to stop the thinking of your small mind.
[18:41] Dogen Coldstream: what is this number of which he speaks?
[18:41] Renwick Tomsen: countable infini
ty
[18:41] Dogen Coldstream: aleph-null
[18:42] Danaeah Ballinger: I’m still suspicious of not being able to divide by zero.
[18:42] Dharma Voyager: hehe
[18:42] Dogen Coldstream: lol
[18:42] Danaeah Ballinger: has to be a loophole
[18:42] Dharma Voyager: worm hole
[18:42] Dharma Voyager: heheh
[18:42] Danaeah Ballinger: yes
[18:42] Dharma Voyager: next point?
[18:42] Danaeah Ballinger: over on the other side you can
[18:43] Solari Georgia: red matter
[18:43] Danaeah Ballinger nods vigorously
[18:43] Renwick Tomsen: Mathematica calls divide by zero: Complex Infinity
[18:43] Danaeah Ballinger: nice

The best way to develop Buddhism is to sit in zazen—just to sit, with a firm conviction in our true nature. This way is much better than to read books or study the philosophy of Buddhism. Of course it is necessary to study the philosophy—it will strengthen your conviction. Buddhist philosophy is so universal and logical that it is not just the philosophy of Buddhism, but of life itself. The purpose of Buddhist teaching is to point to life itself existing beyond consciousness in our pure original mind. All Buddhist practices were built up to protect this true teaching, not to propagate Buddhism in some wonderful mystic way. So when we discuss religion, it should be in the most common and universal way. We should not try to propagate our way by wonderful philosophical thought. In some ways Buddhism is rather polemical, with some feeling of controversy in it, because the Buddhist must protect his way from mystic or magical interpretations of religion. But philosophical discussion will not be the best way to understand Buddhism. If you want to be a sincere Buddhist, the best way is to sit. We are very fortunate to have a place to sit in this way. I want you to have a firm, wide, imperturbable conviction in your zazen of just sitting. Just to sit, that is enough.

[18:43] Dharma Voyager: The best way to develop Buddhism is to sit in zazen—just to sit, with a firm conviction in our true nature. This way is much better than to read books or study the philosophy of Buddhism. Of course it is necessary to study the philosophy—it will strengthen your conviction. Buddhist philosophy is so universal and logical that it is not just the philosophy of Buddhism, but of life itself. The purpose of Buddhist teaching is to point to life itself existing beyond consciousness in our pure original mind. All Buddhist practices were built up to protect this true teaching, not to propagate Buddhism in some wonderful mystic way. So when we discuss religion, it should be in the most common and universal way. We should not try to propagate our way by wonderful philosophical thought. In some ways Buddhism is rather polemical, with some feeling of controversy in it, because the Buddhist must protect his way from mystic or magical interpretations of religion. But philosophical discussion will not be t
[18:43] Dharma Voyager: But philosophical discussion will not be the best way to understand Buddhism. If you want to be a sincere Buddhist, the best way is to sit. We are very fortunate to have a place to sit in this way. I want you to have a firm, wide, imperturbable conviction in your zazen of just sitting. Just to sit, that is enough.
[18:44] Dogen Coldstream: buffer overflow
[18:45] Dharma Voyager: next point?

Buddha’s Enlightenment

What we see or what we hear is just a part, or a limited idea, of what we actually are. But when we just are—each just existing in his own way—we are expressing Buddha himself. In other words, when we practice something such as 2azen, then there is Buddha’s way or Buddha nature. When we ask what Buddha nature is, it vanishes; but when we just practice zazen, we have full understanding of it. The only way to understand Buddha nature is just to practice zazen, just to be here as we are. So what Buddha meant by Buddha nature was to be there as he was, beyond the realm of consciousness.

[18:45] Dharma Voyager: Buddha’s Enlightenment
What we see or what we hear is just a part, or a limited idea, of what we actually are. But when we just are—each just existing in his own way—we are expressing Buddha himself. In other words, when we practice something such as 2azen, then there is Buddha’s way or Buddha nature. When we ask what Buddha nature is, it vanishes; but when we just practice zazen, we have full understanding of it. The only way to understand Buddha nature is just to practice zazen, just to be here as we are. So what Buddha meant by Buddha nature was to be there as he was, beyond the realm of consciousness.
[18:46] Dharma Voyager: next point?

Without trying to be Buddha you are Buddha. This is how we attain enlightenment. To attain enlightenment is to be always with Buddha. By repeating the same thing over and over, we will acquire this kind of understanding. But if you lose this point and take pride in your attainment or become discouraged because of your idealistic effort, your practice will confine you by a thick wall. We should not confine ourselves by a self-built wall. So when zazen time comes, just to get up, to go and sit with your teacher, and to talk to him and listen to him, and then go home again—all these procedures are our practice. In this way, without any idea of attainment, you are always Buddha, This is true practice of zazen. Then you may understand the true meaning of Buddha’s first statement, “See Buddha nature in various beings, and in every one of us.”

[18:46] Dharma Voyager: Without trying to be Buddha you are Buddha. This is how we attain enlightenment. To attain enlightenment is to be always with Buddha. By repeating the same thing over and over, we will acquire this kind of understanding. But if you lose this point and take pride in your attainment or become discouraged because of your idealistic effort, your practice will confine you by a thick wall. We should not confine ourselves by a self-built wall. So when zazen time comes, just to get up, to go and sit with your teacher, and to talk to him and listen to him, and then go home again—all these procedures are our practice. In this way, without any idea of attainment, you are always Buddha, This is true practice of zazen. Then you may understand the true meaning of Buddha’s first statement, “See Buddha nature in various beings, and in every one of us.”
[18:47] Renwick Tomsen: you are always in zazen
[18:47] Solari Georgia: is Dogen, typing a novel or crashed
[18:47] Dharma Voyager: nods
[18:47] Danaeah Ballinger: no you aren’t rennie
[18:47] Danaeah Ballinger: you know that and we all do
[18:47] Dogen Coldstream: stuck animation
[18:47] Renwick Tomsen: do I
[18:47] Dharma Voyager: nods
[18:47] Renwick Tomsen: ?
[18:47] Solari Georgia: : )
[18:47] Danaeah Ballinger: yes
[18:47] Dharma Voyager: (nodding over stuck animation)
[18:48] Danaeah Ballinger: that whole notion that the historical Dogen wrestled with
[18:48] Danaeah Ballinger: or Alan Watts, who was a drunk, but latched onto the idea that he was a Buddha, and didn’t have to practice
[18:48] Danaeah Ballinger: I mean at this point the book gets tiresome
[18:49] Danaeah Ballinger: yeah yeah I get it
[18:49] Dogen Coldstream: Yes, the big question that made Dogen travel to China (!), quite a trip in those days. If we are already buddha’s why practice?
[18:49] Danaeah Ballinger: yes
[18:49] Danaeah Ballinger: and we have this whole wonderful discipline because he didn’t take any easy way out
[18:49] Solari Georgia: Alan Wilson Watts (January 6, 1915 – November 16, 1973) was a British philosopher, writer, speaker, and student of comparative religio
n. He was best known as an interpreter and popularizer of Asian philosophies for a Western audience.
He wrote more than 25 books and numerous articles on subjects such as personal identity, the true nature of reality, higher consciousness, meaning of life, concepts and images of God and the non-material pursuit of happiness. In his books he relates his experience to scientific knowledge and to the teachings of Eastern and Western religion and philosophy.
[18:49] Dharma Voyager: potential buddha energy as opposed to kinetic?
[18:50] Dharma Voyager: or actualized
[18:50] Danaeah Ballinger: sorry, I mean I love this book, but in small doses – read a page or a paragraph and mull it over
[18:50] Dharma Voyager: still have my first zen book from college by watts… had a hard time understanding it then… who would have known I would continue
[18:50] Dharma Voyager: heheh
[18:50] Danaeah Ballinger: its like I read too much and my brain hurts
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: next book should be way different
[18:51] Danaeah Ballinger: what is it?
[18:51] Dogen Coldstream: scary different
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: hopefully lighter and more humorous
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: yeah
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: Dogen picked up another book by the guy
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: I read some of it… it may be a little difficult
[18:51] Danaeah Ballinger: Not Always So?
[18:51] Dharma Voyager: the audience he is going for may be a bit young
[18:51] Dogen Coldstream: if we don’t like it, we can chuck it and do something else
[18:52] Danaeah Ballinger: what book?
[18:52] Solari Georgia: and Suzuki seems very repetitive…as Dharma said…transcripts from a Dharma talk
[18:52] Dharma Voyager: nods
[18:52] Dharma Voyager: looks for the name of the book
[18:53] Dharma Voyager: problem with the blog
[18:53] Dharma Voyager: one moment please
[18:53] Danaeah Ballinger: of course
[18:53] Dharma Voyager: Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies, & the Truth about Reality
ISBN: 086171380X ISBN-13: 9780861713806
[18:54] Danaeah Ballinger: I like Monster Movies!
[18:54] Dharma Voyager: should be interesting
[18:54] Dharma Voyager: I like having a different perspective each time
[18:54] Solari Georgia: Godzilla kicking a school bus : )
[18:54] Dharma Voyager: heheheh
[18:55] Danaeah Ballinger: Oh see I think the kids all identify with Godzilla – like "If I was that big, I wouldn’t have to go to school!"
[18:55] Dogen Coldstream: should be irreverent, anyway
[18:55] Danaeah Ballinger: Godzilla don’t need no education!
[18:55] Dharma Voyager: I suppose so
[18:55] Danaeah Ballinger: anyhoo
[18:55] Danaeah Ballinger: sorry for derailing the discussion
[18:55] Dharma Voyager: derailing?
[18:55] Dharma Voyager: nahhh
[18:56] Dogen Coldstream: this train is hunting for a new track, i think
[18:56] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[18:56] Solari Georgia: was that the last point?
[18:56] Dharma Voyager: here is the last one
[18:56] Solari Georgia: ok
[18:56] Dharma Voyager: well it was
[18:56] Dharma Voyager: just the name of the prologue was next
[18:57] Solari Georgia: prologue?
[18:57] Dharma Voyager: take a look at the book to see how much we read next week
[18:57] Dharma Voyager: sorry epilogue
[18:57] Solari Georgia: oh ok
[18:57] Dharma Voyager: how about prologue and the first two chapters for next week
[18:57] Dharma Voyager: I’ll try to get the blog updated
[18:57] Dogen Coldstream: I couldn’t find any good points in the epilogue
[18:58] Dharma Voyager: how is everyone doing ht the mean time
[18:58] Dharma Voyager: I have been so busy running around
[18:59] Dharma Voyager: yeah last week I was New Jersey I think
[18:59] Dogen Coldstream: I like the new me

[19:00] Solari Georgia: nice shapely AV
[19:00] Dharma Voyager: quasi-buddha
[19:00] Dogen Coldstream: yes
[19:00] Dharma Voyager: you have the ass in front thing going
[19:00] Dharma Voyager: kinda like me
[19:00] Dharma Voyager: smiles
[19:00] Dogen Coldstream: that’s my love child
[19:00] Danaeah Ballinger: you is caught for posterity
[19:00] Dogen Coldstream: posterior?
[19:01] Dharma Voyager: inferior posterior
[19:01] Danaeah Ballinger: posteriority
[19:01] Dogen Coldstream: I like this so much I may just wear it all the time
[19:01] Solari Georgia: thinks Dani made up that word
[19:02] Danaeah Ballinger: the word was from imposturlarity
[19:02] Dharma Voyager: oh oh
[19:02] Dharma Voyager: I’m sorry I didn’t make it last week
[19:02] Dharma Voyager: I just found out someone didn’t tell anyone
[19:02] Dharma Voyager: dork
[19:02] Dogen Coldstream: someone? who dat?
[19:02] Danaeah Ballinger: you know what?
[19:02] Dogen Coldstream: I think we were at the airport last week
[19:02] Danaeah Ballinger: I decided to play hookey – all on my own – felt like kicking back with a trashy novel
[19:02] Dharma Voyager: I was at a funeral… had to fly quickly to the East coast and back
[19:03] Solari Georgia: it’s ok…just me and Rennie
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: that’s cool
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: hahahah
[19:03] Danaeah Ballinger: now that kind of thing happens
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: sorry guys
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: and gals
[19:03] Danaeah Ballinger: and no apologies needed
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: (will kick Dogen’s tushie later)
[19:03] Danaeah Ballinger: he looks like the tar baby – you might get stuck
[19:03] Dharma Voyager: lmao
[19:03] Renwick Tomsen: yep. no worries
[19:03] Solari Georgia: we could have been solving all the problems of the Western world…but noooo…we were here
[19:04] Dogen Coldstream: my face and your ass!
[19:04] Dharma Voyager: hahahaha
[19:04] Dogen Coldstream: or something
[19:04] Danaeah Ballinger: well folks
[19:04] Dharma Voyager: I think he has just lost it
[19:04] Danaeah Ballinger: and dogen
[19:04] Dharma Voyager: lmao
[19:04] Dharma Voyager: weirdo
[19:04] Danaeah Ballinger: its been real!
[19:05] Dharma Voyager: nite nite all
[19:05] Dharma Voyager: I have to fix a server
[19:05] Solari Georgia: ok…see ya laters
[19:05] Danaeah Ballinger: thanks
[19:05] Danaeah Ballinger: oh
[19:05] Renwick Tomsen: cheers. *hugs*
[19:05] Danaeah Ballinger: what are we doing for next week?
[19:05] Solari Georgia: *Hugs*
[19:05] Dogen Coldstream: see y’all later.
[19:05] Dharma Voyager: prologue and first two chapters
[19:05] Solari Georgia: ok
[19:05] Dogen Coldstream: nobody will hug me now. –sniff–
[19:06] Danaeah Ballinger: OK, I will order the book tomorrow
[19:06] Dharma Voyager: good deal
[19:06] Dogen Coldstream: I missed you all… good to see you again
[19:06] Danaeah Ballinger: likewise
[19:06] Danaeah Ballinger: good to be here
[19:07] : Dogen Coldstream sounds the friendship bell…
[19:07] : A reminder to be… mindful…
<
/p>

I love the sound of a bell…